It's been a few years since I last did any serious Macro photography, but with this Coronavirus "lockdown", now seems like an ideal time to experiment with Macro Photography.
There are a lot of questions that immediately pop up:
• do I need to buy a specialist macro lens or extension tubes, or will those of my existing lenses that boast "near-macro" capabilities be good enough?
• if I decide to buy a specialist macro lens, what's the best focal length and is the lens' aperture of significance?
• extension tubes seem like an affordable "budget" option, but what are the pro's and con's, and which of my existing lenses will work best (wide angle, standard, telephoto, or even super-telephoto)?
• what about those specialist "ring lights" -- are the budget ones any good, and won't they just give me a flat "clinical" looking image with no highlights and shadows?
• depth-of-field seems to be a particular issue, and how should I go about getting sufficient depth-of-field along with background bokeh?
• what will make a good macro image that tells a story, rather than just being a pretty flower with some water misting droplets?
• what are the tricks of the trade for insect photography, so I can attract them onto an object, and so they don't fly away the moment I poke my lens at them?
Well folks, this time I'm not going to be giving you the answers. This time, I'd appreciate your sharing some of your tips and suggestions. But, please, don't just say "the Olympus 60mm Macro lens is a fantastic choice"; rather, please share with everyone why the 60mm is better than the 30mm Olympus macro. And what about my using my 300mm f4 PRO with the MC-14 Teleconverter and 26mm of extension tubes; would this be a good or bad idea, and why?
We're looking forward to reading your contributions,
Rick & MagRat
MACRO - Choosing your Kit
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MagRat Garlic
- Posts: 63
- Joined: 31 Mar 2020 17:15
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MagRat Garlic
- Posts: 63
- Joined: 31 Mar 2020 17:15
Re: MACRO - Choosing your Kit
In last night's livestream, Rob was kind enough to say that I'm so knowledgeable in all things photographic that I already know the answers to my questions (that they're rhetorical). Not true.
Yes, I used to do Macro back in the days of film. But things have moved on. And, as I've often said, even a lifelong professional photographer like myself, can still learn from the questions or inspiration or experience of a total newbie. No one knows everything. That's why I enjoy joining you on the livestreams, and I always learn something.
A good example is Focus Peaking when using old 35mm manual-focus film lenses on OM-D digital cameras. I found it didn't work. But, apparently, it does. I'd tried what my experience as a technology consultant told me might work. It didn't. So I moved on. But people with far less experience tried different things, and they got Focus Peaking to work. Wow! Thank you! That will be so useful to me, and I'd never have found it without your help.
So, moving on to Macro. What is the best equipment setup? The Olympus 60mm Macro seems like the best of the best. It isn't.
I was watching Peter Forsgård's livestream last night. He had a husband and wife pair of guests who, amongst other things, know a lot about Macro. [I'll put a link here]
When I asked, putting your favourite Olympus Macro-capable lenses in order (including any extension tube lengths) what would be your favourite Macro lenses?, I wasn't surprised by the answer, but you may well be surprised.
Ok, you need to know that Peter's guests only use PRO series lenses. Not to worry. It's the focal length that matters here. So look at the focal length (and what extension tube is used) and forget about whether it is a PRO or an Enthusiasts' lens, as they'll all be usable.
The three lenses they named were:
No.1 : the Olympus 300mm f4 PRO with a 16mm extension tube ;
No.2 : the Olympus 40-150 f2.8 PRO with a 10mm extension tube ;
No.3 : the Olympus 60mm Macro!
No.1 & 2 were Tom's choice for photographing butterflies, so he was far enough away not to disturb the butterfly.
No.3 was Lisa's choice, as she does true Macro.
Macro means that the object you're photographing can't be bigger than the physical size of your sensor. So, in full frame, your object can't be bigger than 35mm. Hmm, that's a bit of a problem for micro 4/3rds. In fact, in micro 4/3rds, it's fair to say we seldom do real Macro photography. We're really talking about super-closeup photography, but the final image looks the same.
So, when it comes to buying an Olympus brand (true) Macro lens, you're limited to the 30 or 60 mm Macros. But, the question is whether you really want a true Macro, or whether you want a Macro-capable closeup lens. For most of us, we really want a Macro-capable closeup lens. Remember, true macro lenses were created for scientific and medical photography, but we're only after something that'll capture a great closeup. It doesn't have to be scientifically accurate.
Forget the 30mm. It'll give you a lot of problems: you'll be so close to your subject that, if it's an insect, you'll frighten it off; and if it's inanimate, such a a flower or mechanism, you'll have lighting problems. It was designed for scientific and medical use, where it works well, but is too restrictive for creative photography.
What about the 60mm? Yes, it is an excellent true Macro lens. But are you really interested in Macro or super closeup? If the answer is that you want to do super closeup (and don't care that your image isn't 100% distortion free, so you can measure any part and it's mathematically correct) then the 60mm Olympus macro isn't a good investment.
There's also the argument that you could use the 60mm "Macro" as a standard 60mm focal length lens. So, it has a dual use. Sorry, no it doesn't. A 60mm Prime will always out-perform a 60mm Macro once you go beyond close focus. Whenever the engineers design a lens, there will always be tradeoffs. With Zoom lenses, where is the "sweet spot"? And for a Prime lens, then the "sweet spot" will be at longer focal distances for normal Primes (not so good closeup) while the Macro will have it's "sweet spot" at closeup focus (and not so good when your object is further away). They'll both work at either end of the focal distance, but if you're thinking the 60mm Macro will double as a perfect alternative to the 75 or 45 mm portrait lenses, then think again. We have to think about optical physics in the way our lenses are designed, and you can't have a lens that's good at everything; there will always be compromise.
It seems that expert opinion is that longer -- telephoto -- lenses that have a close-focusing capability are the best choice for most of us; especially if we combine with a 10mm or 16mm extension tube (never both at the same time, as 26mm extension tubes will give you focus problems!).
Tom recommended the 40-150mm f/2.8 PRO or the 300mm f/4 PRO with an extension tube, as this allows him to stay far enough away from his butterflies without disturbing them. It also ensures he has no ambient light problems.
Ambient light is a major problem in Macro. If you're outdoors and want to use a lens hood, this problem is exacerbated. With the 30mm it becomes impossible, unless you have a light ring. And, remember, a light ring is designed to give totally flat scientific lighting, which is useless to the creative photographer. So, the longer your focal length the better for most of us.
Of course, if you measure the object you photograph with a telephoto Macro-capable lens, the measurement will be inaccurate. Remember, Olympus is a Medical Imaging company, so they have to offer true Macro lenses for the scientific and medical sides of their business. But, ask yourself, is that you.
Now it's your turn to answer a few of my questions. I don't know everything, and I'd like to hear your experiences relating to my questions. As a teacher of philosophy, let me tell you that very often the best questions and suggestions come from the absolute beginner. The more we learn, the more blinkered we become (remember my Focus Peaking comment), so even if you only picked up your camera and lens last week, your thoughts will be valuable. New thinking comes from people who are new to photography, not the old hands. Speak up, PLEASE.
Rick
Yes, I used to do Macro back in the days of film. But things have moved on. And, as I've often said, even a lifelong professional photographer like myself, can still learn from the questions or inspiration or experience of a total newbie. No one knows everything. That's why I enjoy joining you on the livestreams, and I always learn something.
A good example is Focus Peaking when using old 35mm manual-focus film lenses on OM-D digital cameras. I found it didn't work. But, apparently, it does. I'd tried what my experience as a technology consultant told me might work. It didn't. So I moved on. But people with far less experience tried different things, and they got Focus Peaking to work. Wow! Thank you! That will be so useful to me, and I'd never have found it without your help.
So, moving on to Macro. What is the best equipment setup? The Olympus 60mm Macro seems like the best of the best. It isn't.
I was watching Peter Forsgård's livestream last night. He had a husband and wife pair of guests who, amongst other things, know a lot about Macro. [I'll put a link here]
When I asked, putting your favourite Olympus Macro-capable lenses in order (including any extension tube lengths) what would be your favourite Macro lenses?, I wasn't surprised by the answer, but you may well be surprised.
Ok, you need to know that Peter's guests only use PRO series lenses. Not to worry. It's the focal length that matters here. So look at the focal length (and what extension tube is used) and forget about whether it is a PRO or an Enthusiasts' lens, as they'll all be usable.
The three lenses they named were:
No.1 : the Olympus 300mm f4 PRO with a 16mm extension tube ;
No.2 : the Olympus 40-150 f2.8 PRO with a 10mm extension tube ;
No.3 : the Olympus 60mm Macro!
No.1 & 2 were Tom's choice for photographing butterflies, so he was far enough away not to disturb the butterfly.
No.3 was Lisa's choice, as she does true Macro.
Macro means that the object you're photographing can't be bigger than the physical size of your sensor. So, in full frame, your object can't be bigger than 35mm. Hmm, that's a bit of a problem for micro 4/3rds. In fact, in micro 4/3rds, it's fair to say we seldom do real Macro photography. We're really talking about super-closeup photography, but the final image looks the same.
So, when it comes to buying an Olympus brand (true) Macro lens, you're limited to the 30 or 60 mm Macros. But, the question is whether you really want a true Macro, or whether you want a Macro-capable closeup lens. For most of us, we really want a Macro-capable closeup lens. Remember, true macro lenses were created for scientific and medical photography, but we're only after something that'll capture a great closeup. It doesn't have to be scientifically accurate.
Forget the 30mm. It'll give you a lot of problems: you'll be so close to your subject that, if it's an insect, you'll frighten it off; and if it's inanimate, such a a flower or mechanism, you'll have lighting problems. It was designed for scientific and medical use, where it works well, but is too restrictive for creative photography.
What about the 60mm? Yes, it is an excellent true Macro lens. But are you really interested in Macro or super closeup? If the answer is that you want to do super closeup (and don't care that your image isn't 100% distortion free, so you can measure any part and it's mathematically correct) then the 60mm Olympus macro isn't a good investment.
There's also the argument that you could use the 60mm "Macro" as a standard 60mm focal length lens. So, it has a dual use. Sorry, no it doesn't. A 60mm Prime will always out-perform a 60mm Macro once you go beyond close focus. Whenever the engineers design a lens, there will always be tradeoffs. With Zoom lenses, where is the "sweet spot"? And for a Prime lens, then the "sweet spot" will be at longer focal distances for normal Primes (not so good closeup) while the Macro will have it's "sweet spot" at closeup focus (and not so good when your object is further away). They'll both work at either end of the focal distance, but if you're thinking the 60mm Macro will double as a perfect alternative to the 75 or 45 mm portrait lenses, then think again. We have to think about optical physics in the way our lenses are designed, and you can't have a lens that's good at everything; there will always be compromise.
It seems that expert opinion is that longer -- telephoto -- lenses that have a close-focusing capability are the best choice for most of us; especially if we combine with a 10mm or 16mm extension tube (never both at the same time, as 26mm extension tubes will give you focus problems!).
Tom recommended the 40-150mm f/2.8 PRO or the 300mm f/4 PRO with an extension tube, as this allows him to stay far enough away from his butterflies without disturbing them. It also ensures he has no ambient light problems.
Ambient light is a major problem in Macro. If you're outdoors and want to use a lens hood, this problem is exacerbated. With the 30mm it becomes impossible, unless you have a light ring. And, remember, a light ring is designed to give totally flat scientific lighting, which is useless to the creative photographer. So, the longer your focal length the better for most of us.
Of course, if you measure the object you photograph with a telephoto Macro-capable lens, the measurement will be inaccurate. Remember, Olympus is a Medical Imaging company, so they have to offer true Macro lenses for the scientific and medical sides of their business. But, ask yourself, is that you.
Now it's your turn to answer a few of my questions. I don't know everything, and I'd like to hear your experiences relating to my questions. As a teacher of philosophy, let me tell you that very often the best questions and suggestions come from the absolute beginner. The more we learn, the more blinkered we become (remember my Focus Peaking comment), so even if you only picked up your camera and lens last week, your thoughts will be valuable. New thinking comes from people who are new to photography, not the old hands. Speak up, PLEASE.
Rick
Re: MACRO - Choosing your Kit
Hi Rick
Thanks for all that you are writing on this forum and also your comments on the live streams.
I feel I have little to contribute sometimes as I am very much a beginner. I didn't even know I could put extension tubes on my 40-150 kit lens! I thought I would do an experiment. I took a few photos with my Macro 60mm and then the same photos with the 14-150 and a 16mm tube. I felt the photos were similar, but I have a limited skill level! The biggest difference I found was the weight. I do not have the steadiest of hands and I found the extra weight of the larger lens difficult to keep steady. Having said that, I think I will keep the heavier lens on for a while and see what I can do, may just need a tripod sometimes.
Deb
Thanks for all that you are writing on this forum and also your comments on the live streams.
I feel I have little to contribute sometimes as I am very much a beginner. I didn't even know I could put extension tubes on my 40-150 kit lens! I thought I would do an experiment. I took a few photos with my Macro 60mm and then the same photos with the 14-150 and a 16mm tube. I felt the photos were similar, but I have a limited skill level! The biggest difference I found was the weight. I do not have the steadiest of hands and I found the extra weight of the larger lens difficult to keep steady. Having said that, I think I will keep the heavier lens on for a while and see what I can do, may just need a tripod sometimes.
Deb
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MagRat Garlic
- Posts: 63
- Joined: 31 Mar 2020 17:15
Re: MACRO - Choosing your Kit
Hi Deb,
The thing is to try different things. Using an extension tube on a long telephoto or even a super-telephoto, for example, isn't what the purists would call Macro. But it's very useful if you want to get a close-up of a bee taking nectar from a flower without getting stung or disturbing the bee.
You can even use Teleconverters to do super close-up Macro type shots. And that really isn't something that'd immediately spring to mind. Imagine using a 300mm M43 lens with the MC-14 1.4x Teleconverter to photography a honey bee on a flower. That's equivalent of using an 840mm lens on 35mm full frame! Sounds like madness until you try.
This is also why I tell people to only use one lens for a few weeks. There will be times where you feel you're using the wrong lens for what you want to photograph. There's a temptation to give up and go grab that other lens. But if you persist, you will find a way to get a great shot with only that one lens. Quite simply, it'll force you to think creatively, outside the obvious.
Finally, don't ever think you've nothing to contribute. All of us are learning all of the time. I learn as much from my students as they ever learn from me. So never be afraid to say something. For example, you now know that your 14-150 zoom with a 16mm extension tube can produce images that are comparable to your Macro dedicated 60mm. As you saw, they're not quite the same, so you already have a knowledge of the differences between using these two lens combinations, and that's something you have which you can talk about.
I hope this is useful,
Rick
The thing is to try different things. Using an extension tube on a long telephoto or even a super-telephoto, for example, isn't what the purists would call Macro. But it's very useful if you want to get a close-up of a bee taking nectar from a flower without getting stung or disturbing the bee.
You can even use Teleconverters to do super close-up Macro type shots. And that really isn't something that'd immediately spring to mind. Imagine using a 300mm M43 lens with the MC-14 1.4x Teleconverter to photography a honey bee on a flower. That's equivalent of using an 840mm lens on 35mm full frame! Sounds like madness until you try.
This is also why I tell people to only use one lens for a few weeks. There will be times where you feel you're using the wrong lens for what you want to photograph. There's a temptation to give up and go grab that other lens. But if you persist, you will find a way to get a great shot with only that one lens. Quite simply, it'll force you to think creatively, outside the obvious.
Finally, don't ever think you've nothing to contribute. All of us are learning all of the time. I learn as much from my students as they ever learn from me. So never be afraid to say something. For example, you now know that your 14-150 zoom with a 16mm extension tube can produce images that are comparable to your Macro dedicated 60mm. As you saw, they're not quite the same, so you already have a knowledge of the differences between using these two lens combinations, and that's something you have which you can talk about.
I hope this is useful,
Rick
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BobenhamHotspur
- Posts: 14
- Joined: 10 May 2020 15:11
Re: MACRO - Choosing your Kit
Oh dear, I've just recently just purchased the 30mm Macro 
. Luckily I got it on a special and only paid £150.
I'm now doing some 'tests' to try and work out how to get the best out of it and am publishing my findings in a thread in this sub-forum.
I also have some extension rings so will give them a try on my other lenses and see how that goes.
. Luckily I got it on a special and only paid £150.I'm now doing some 'tests' to try and work out how to get the best out of it and am publishing my findings in a thread in this sub-forum.
I also have some extension rings so will give them a try on my other lenses and see how that goes.